In my nearly six years in the United Methodist Church, the number one question I receive from people who are affiliated with my former Southern Baptist denomination is “Do Methodists believe you can lose your salvation?” Growing up in the Baptist church, we were always big on doctrine and knowing what we believed and how scripture supports that. I’m thankful for this training in the Bible even though a small handful of my views have changed. So back to the question at hand. Are believers saved once and for all, or is there opportunity for them to “fall from grace” or turn their back on their faith.
Most Baptists are varying degrees of Calvinists, who adopt the “Perseverance of the Saints” tenet of John Calvin’s 5-point TULIP doctrine, which emphasizes the sovereignty of God over man’s choice in salvation. Scriptures that support this can be found in many books of the Bible. Here is a list if you are curious (go to the “Biblical Evidence” section). John Wesley, the founder of the Methodist Societies that would later become the present-day United Methodist Church was a follower of the teachings of Jacob Arminius, who presented a different view from Calvin’s, which emphasized not only personal faith, but also continuing faith in God that was revocable by the believer. This article explains the United Methodist view on “falling from grace.” Scriptures in 1 John 2:3-9, Galatians 1:6-9, Hebrews 6:4-8, Hebrews 10:19-31 can be interpreted that the believer is subject to falling out of good graces with the Creator.
But I want to present an alternate approach to the debates that entangle those of us in the church who enjoy debating these sorts of topics. As my faith in God grows, I have adopted what I call a “big God” approach to my faith. When I read Romans, I read chapter 7 and know the importance of our personal, ongoing, choosing to follow God. Yet when I read chapter 9, I am reminded of how big God is and how God initiates the process of salvation (another important tenet of Methodism), and how he is sovereign. So what is my alternate approach?
Suppose John professes his faith in Christ. He begins living the life Christ called us to live, then after a time, no longer demonstrate Christ’s presence in his life. (Remember the Parable of the Sower how some seed fell among the weeds and rocks and was either choked out or died because it had no strong roots to sustain it?) He does not put others first, he doesn’t meet with others for worship, he doesn’t pray, etc. Some on one side of this debate would say either he was never saved, or he is still saved he is just no longer living the life God called him to live. Proponents of the other view would say that John has renounced his faith and is no longer a believer.
In either case, someone is trying to determine whether or not John is still “saved”-something that only God truly knows. So while we sit around debating whether or not John is still a believer, John remains a derelict who needs the presence of God in his life. Whether or not he is still saved is not the issue. If he is still a believer, we have a responsibility to reconnect him with God, and God’s people. If he is no longer a believer, of course we have a responsibility to reconnect him with God, and God’s people.
So how about this? Why don’t we quit playing God in trying to determine things that God only knows, and focus our time helping people connect and reconnect with him? What do you think?
It’s great that you are seeing some of the problems with Calvanism. A couple of points to make.
1.) It is possible to “judge righteously” without playing God. See John 7:24 and much of 1 Corinthians (especially chapter 5), and 2 Timothy 4:10 where Paul basically judges Demas saying that he has “loved this present world” (i.e. He fell away).
2.) God cannot fellowship sin. It is not possible nor in his nature. When we sin we separate ourselves from God. It has been this way since the beginning of time. If not, then the devil himself could not have “fallen from grace” and would be able to join us in Heaven.
Oops… Accidentally posted and wasn’t finished. Just some scriptures to make my 2nd point: See mainly 1 John 1:5, and Isaiah 14:12.
I wouldn’t disagree, Jarod. My point is that regardless of whether people can or cannot lose their salvation (or if their salvation was never real, et al), the mandate we have to help restore relationship with God is still the same. I think there is a difference between judging righteously and trying to determine whether or not a person is saved or not. Thanks for the comments.
If we don’t judge whether a person is saved or not, how do we “seek and save the lost”?
If their life demonstrates that they are out of fellowship with God, we go after them. Labeling them lost or saved is beside the point. If they act lost, then we can only assume they are and treat them as such. Or if we want to label them a backslider, we do likewise. But if there life is producing no fruit, the mandate we have is the same, regardless of whether or not we want to determine their salvation based on our denominational or doctrinal stance.
My point is that too many people are more concerned with the labels of lost and saved, rather than simply restoring people to faith.
Thanks for you very thoughtful post. I read this as I am watching the UMC battle over many such issues at General Conference, and my position is becoming clearer and clearer to me. There are many things I do not know and cannot and should not try to judge. I too believe that while we seek to serve the lost and the hurting that judgement should be left to God. If I err in my thinking, I pray I always err on the side of compassion and love rather than on the side of judgement. Blessings my friend, and Happy Comment Day!.
Carl, you are the best. I hope this is a debate that has run its course, although, I believe theology and doctrine to be of pivotal importance. But the worst thing is when church leaders spend their times fighting these battles instead of doing what we should be doing! Thanks for your comment!
After being raised in “Calvinist” churches and attending college with a very “Wesleyan” stance I completely understand and agree with your points here. Thanks for sharing!
Brian, thanks for your comments and for taking the time to read!
Jason,
I agree with your points as well. Many denominations are in a battle if “salvation can be lost or not”. God knows who is. The enemy must be so happy because God’s people is so entertained in this issue, and we are not doing what we should in the first place. Evangelizing, and helping others get back to God and their service to Him. That is the true meaning of the Gospel! Thanks so much for sharing as well!!